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TRANSCRIPT OF
PROCEEDINGS
Monday, 2 February 1998
Page 5
Sitting suspended
from 10.44 to 11.34 a.m.
CHAIRMAN- The
Convention will now commence consideration of proposed rules of
debate. In drafting the rules, we have sought to provide the
minimum of formality consistent with the need to have a
structured and sensible debate on the issues, but the Deputy
Chairman and I will of course at all times be subject to a
majority view of the members of the Convention. In particular, we
have tried to maximise the scope for delegates to have their say
within reasonable limits without the intrusion of procedural
issues which do not go to the substance of the important matters
prescribed for us to debate.
In the first instance
and simply for the purposes of our discussion of endorsement of
the rules, I propose we operate under the following arrangements.
Motions proposing amendment to the rules should be in writing and
seconded. I have already a number of those. If anybody else has
further amendments, I would suggest they put them in writing and
give them to the secretariat so we can distribute them amongst
all delegates.
Secondly, in view of
the limited time available, I suggest that the mover and seconder
of each motion of which I will advise as we come to them might
come down to the speaking position. To avoid delays, it would be
more convenient to speak from the podium here than it would be
from your own places. So prior to proceeding, if you do not mind,
would you come down when you are called.
In view of the
limited time, too, I suggest that we have a strict time limit of
three minutes on speeches. Delegates wishing to speak should
raise a hand and I will call them then to the lectern. Voting
will be by show of hands. There being no objection, can I have a
motion that the rules as distributed be adopted?
Mr TURNBULL- I
move:
That the
rules as distributed be adopted.
Mr WADDY- I
second the motion.
Mr MUIR- Mr
Chairman, I would like to raise a point of order. As I
understand, proper meeting procedure is that the first item of
business is the election of the Chairman and Deputy Chairman.
Previous Constitutional Conventions have followed that precedent.
I think that we should move to elect you as Chairman and Mr Barry
Jones as Deputy Chairman. I foreshadow that we should, to have a
proper gender balance, also elect an additional deputy chair who
is a woman.
CHAIRMAN- Mr
Muir, the reason that I did not proceed to that initially was
that there has already been tabled advice from the Prime Minister
of the appointment of the Chairman and the Deputy Chairman. We
are not delegates in the normal sense: neither of us has a vote.
I felt that as a result we are in a different position and that
we should therefore accept your motion as an amendment to the
rules of debate where the actual position of the Chairman and the
Deputy Chairman and their roles are defined. For that reason, I
rule against your point of order at this stage and will consider
your amendment at a later stage. Could I have a proposer and
seconder for the first motion, of which I understand notice has
been given by Ron Boswell and which will be seconded by the
Reverend Tim Costello.
Senator BOSWELL- I
move:
1. That this
Convention adopts the prayer as said in both houses of parliament
each sitting day;
2. that the
Chairman, Ian Sinclair, say the prayer at the start of each day;
and
3. that the
word `Parliament' be replaced by `Constitutional Convention'.
Ladies and gentlemen,
the reason I have moved this motion is that every day, in both
houses of parliament, we seek God's help to make the most
important decisions for the nation. I view this Convention as
very important for Australia. I know that there are many people
here from all over Australia from all walks of life- the young
and the old, people with ethnic backgrounds and the first
Australians. It is going to be a very important Convention that
is going to have to come up with an outcome that is in the best
interests of Australia. So I have proposed that we have a similar
prayer to the one that we have in parliament, removing the word
`Parliament' and placing in `Constitutional Convention,' to be
said by the Chairman, Mr Ian Sinclair, every morning at the start
of proceedings. I would like the support of the Convention and
call on the Reverend Tim Costello to second this motion.
Reverend TIM
COSTELLO- At the risk of a minister seeming to engage in
special pleading, I have supported this. But I should say that it
seems that most of my friends, even my best friends, are
atheists. So to all the atheists here who wish to vote against
it: you will remain my best friends. I think, at least, the
assembly can test its mind on this. Therefore, I am happy to
second the motion.
Motion carried.
CHAIRMAN- The
second motion is one proposed by the Leader of the Opposition in
Queensland, Mr Beattie. However, there has since been advice that
the Prime Minister and the government have agreed with the
opposition that proxies for opposition leaders should be allowed
and, similarly, those other delegates to whom any special
circumstances might apply or from whom there might be an
application for a proxy on compassionate grounds might be given
such a proxy by the chair. On that basis I understand Mr Beattie
intends to withdraw the motion that he has proposed. Is that
correct?
Mr BEATTIE-
This proposition was designed to assist the efficient running of
this Convention. We appreciate we are here for two weeks. There
are 152 delegates. Much as I would hate to see it happen, it may
well be that, through illness or other circumstances, delegates
need to leave this Convention for a brief period of time. I am
happy to accept your ruling, but I would hope that there would be
a compassionate approach in the way you handle this matter when
delegates do seek to use a proxy for a plenary session.
CHAIRMAN- Is
there any speaker against that proposal? If there is not, we
accept that modification to the rules of debate. The next
amendment I have is one of which Mr David Muir gave notice in his
earlier intervention in the proceedings. I call on Mr Muir to
move his proposition.
Mr MUIR- I
move, as the first order of business:
That we
elect Mr Ian Sinclair as Chairman of this Convention and Mr Barry
Jones as Deputy Chairman.
I understand that I
have a seconder in Mr Clem Jones.
Mr CLEM JONES-
I second the motion.
CHAIRMAN- Do
you wish to speak to it, Mr Muir?
Mr MUIR- I
think it is self-evident. The reason that it has been moved is
that it is proper meeting procedure at the start of every meeting
to elect a chair and a deputy chair. I think that we should be
seen to be following proper procedure. There is plenty of
precedent. I think it goes without saying.
CHAIRMAN- Mr
Jones, do you wish to speak as seconder?
Mr PATRICK O'BRIEN-
Mr Chairman, on a point of order: I presume that the chair and
deputy chair will be non-voting- that although you are
democratically elected, you will still be non-voting?
CHAIRMAN- The
conditions of our appointment have been laid down in the letters
of appointment which were tabled earlier today. Neither Mr Jones
nor I have a vote, nor will we be exercising one.
Mr RAMSAY- On
a point of order, Mr Chairman. I suggest that we should be
confirming the appointment of the Chairman and the Deputy
Chairman because you, sir, have already been appointed by the
people who organised and called for this Convention. For us to
take over your appointment from that earlier appointment seems to
me to be inappropriate. I am perfectly happy for the Convention
to confirm your appointment, but not for it make it.
CHAIRMAN- Are
you happy with that amendment, Mr Muir?
Mr MUIR- I
will not accept that as a friendly amendment. I ask that my
motion be put.
CHAIRMAN- In
those circumstances we could take it as a further amendment that
the word be `confirm' instead of `elect'. We could take it as an
amendment now.
Mr RAMSAY- I
move as an amendment:
Delete
`elect', substitute `confirm'.
Mr TIM FISCHER-
I second the amendment.
CHAIRMAN- It
is seconded by Mr Tim Fischer. The question before the Convention
is that the word `elect' be deleted in the respective
appointments of me as Chair and Mr Jones as deputy and be
replaced with the word `confirm'. The question now is that the
Convention confirm me as Chairman and Mr Jones as Deputy
Chairman.
Amendment carried.
Motion carried.
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