The Foundation for National Renewal   The Constitutional Convention of February 1998

Federal Election October 2004: Which Candidates Trust the People?

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
Monday, 2 February 1998
Page 8

Proceedings suspended from 1.00 p.m. to 2.00 p.m.

CHAIRMAN- There were two amendments relating to procedures. I call Ms Sowada.

Ms SOWADA- We had discussions with Tim Costello over lunch. He has moved a similar motion and he will be moving his motion with our amendment.

CHAIRMAN- I call Tim Costello.

Reverend TIM COSTELLO- I move:

That the agenda includes discussion about the process and procedures for ongoing debate on Constitutional reform which is properly resources by governments to ensure inclusive community participation and that a working group be established to make recommendations for the consideration of the delegates.

This motion, as you see, asks that in the agenda we discuss the processes and procedures for ongoing debate and constitutional reform that is properly resourced by governments to ensure inclusive community participation, that a working group be established to make recommendations for the consideration of delegates and that appropriate time be set aside for these issues on Monday, 9 February and debate at the plenary session on Tuesday, 10 February.

I hope this will be supported right across the floor. It has already been such a colourful start that I hope you will say that I want to come back to another one and hear Phil Cleary's three-quarter time address and be involved in some of the issues that everybody agreed are important issues to connect particularly younger people and ordinary Australians with their Constitution, which I think the floor clearly said cannot be fitted into the timetable now. This is a serious mechanism to allow us to timetable it and therefore to treat it with seriousness and not to marginalise those concerns which some of us were elected to represent, and we have already made those speeches. I am very pleased to move this motion.

Mrs MILNE- Mr Chairman, it gives me great pleasure to second this motion. As I said earlier in the day, I think it is critically important going into the new millennium that all Australians have ownership of their Constitution. The only way they are going to have ownership of the Constitution and the changes that need to be made to that Constitution to reflect the hopes and aspirations of the broader community is going to be when governments resource a process that allows for real inclusive community participation and education.

I think that is terribly important because, in many ways, what we are doing now is, to a degree, elitist. There has not been much material, if any, produced in community languages. One of the messages from the Women's Convention, in particular, was that they want an ongoing process so that women and men, indigenous people and ethnic diversity in Australia are represented in discussing what the Constitution for the next 100 years is going to be. I strongly support this motion.

CHAIRMAN- Is there a speaker against the motion?

Mr RUXTON- I am speaking against the motion. We have been all through this. This is just another way of getting around it again. As far as this Convention is concerned, we are discussing those three issues that you sent out to all delegates in that letter of 8 January. I will not go along with this one.

Ms SOWADA- The Australian Republican Movement does support this motion. It is quite clear that the establishment of this convention has resulted in a great deal of wider debate about other changes to the Constitution. While we may agree or disagree on the nature of those changes, it is a good opportunity we think to consider how these public aspirations may be dealt with by an ongoing process of debate. We are not proposing any particular amendments that might be made through a subsequent process but simply setting up a mechanism by which further debate can take place, at least setting up a process to discuss how further debate might take place.

Many of you would have received a letter in the mail over the last couple of weeks from the Australian Local Government Association, which has encouraged us to consider establishing an ongoing mechanism to allow other important constitutional reform matters to be adequately addressed. I believe this is a very worthwhile proposal. We are not in the business of actually proposing any fresh amendments to the Constitution but looking at how we can set up a mechanism to ensure that ongoing debate does take place. I agree with everything that Tim Costello has said and would hope that the amendment receives the support of delegates.

The Most Reverend PETER HOLLINGWORTH- I rise to support this motion firmly in the way that I could not support the previous one before lunch largely because I think it would have made very serious inroads into the business of this Convention. I do not think it does this in this instance- and here I would have to disagree with my friend Mr Ruxton- because the motion does say that a `working group be established to make recommendations for the consideration of the delegates'.

I think that is one of things I came to this Convention with very strongly in my own mind. There does need to be a great deal more discussion and debate. There is widespread ignorance in areas where you would not expect it. People simply do not know enough about our Constitution, about our governance. It is a big issue which has been on the agenda of the Centenary of Federation Council, which I am proud to serve on. It seems to me that this is one of the great things that this Convention can do in making some quite practical recommendations about how we proceed from here. The notion of community participation is absolutely critical.

I think we are all influenced by our sons and daughters. One of the great things I heard over the weekend from my own daughter, who is a legal officer in a western suburbs city council, was that the council convened their own constitutional convention a couple of weeks ago. They got the advice of an expert constitutional lawyer and academic. They had an excellent discussion. I am sure that such things have happened in other places. I believe that if that were part of an ongoing process throughout the nation we would have a far better informed people.

I think the whole critical question of participating in our national future and destiny is of the greatest importance. I would hope that in tackling it this way those who had proposed the previous motion before lunch and who are probably disappointed by the outcome might feel some sense of fulfilment in that.

Brigadier GARLAND- I speak against the motion on the basis that when this Convention was set up it was designed to look at three questions. What we have in the motion that has been put forward is something which is extraneous to those three questions. Today we have already wasted nearly an hour talking on extraneous issues. We have not got down to the meat of the subject. We have already had three speakers who have been postponed in the 45 minutes prior to lunch. This sort of issue is an issue to be decided by the government, not by these delegates. If Delegate Milne and Delegate Tim Costello want to go outside, set up a soapbox and shout to everybody around the place, including the media, that is fine. But I do not believe we should be wasting our time in this particular forum discussing this issue. It is not part of agenda.

Mr MOLLER- I rise in support of this motion. We have all agreed that this Convention is history making. Some of us in this chamber have more history before us than others. It seems to me that the Convention has the opportunity to start the ball rolling in the real education of the Australian people as to their forms of government and their constitutional systems. A number of people here are concerned with safeguarding the people. It seems to me that the more the people can be involved and educated about their constitutional systems the more they will be able to safeguard themselves. That is all I have to say.

CHAIRMAN- Thank you, Mr Moller. I think we might try to put the question. Otherwise, we will lose more time. Reverend Costello, do you wish to sum up the debate?

Reverend TIM COSTELLO- I want to make one very quick comment. I do not think the founding fathers when they wrote our present Constitution believed for a moment that it was the last word. I think they certainly believed that changes would be necessary at different times. This motion simply gives a mechanism for us to go on thinking about that. I believe very strongly in conventions. I congratulate the Prime Minister on calling a convention rather than it just going to a referendum. I think this is a very Australian way to get together and talk about the future. I hope that future mechanisms will include far more people. That is why I have moved this motion.

CHAIRMAN- Thank you, Reverend Costello. The amendment to the adoption of the order of proceedings moved by Reverend Tim Costello reads `That the agenda includes discussion about the process and procedures for ongoing debate on Constitutional reform'.

Motion carried.

 
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